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	<title>Comments on: Strategy sucks</title>
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	<link>http://news.opensuse.org/2010/09/03/strategy-sucks/</link>
	<description>The latest news from the openSUSE project</description>
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		<title>By: Rod Donovan</title>
		<link>http://news.opensuse.org/2010/09/03/strategy-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-20287</link>
		<dc:creator>Rod Donovan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Nov 2010 14:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.opensuse.org/?p=4148#comment-20287</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So where&#039;s the beef? Are we all making money with OpenSuSE? I&#039;m beginning to think that maybe we need new blood. Maybe we need to start running SuSE like a business. People contribute, contribute, and contribute. Bragging rights are really cool, but they do not feed anyone. We should maybe put some pay structure for our beloved programmers. Android and Web OS has their developers make a couple of bucks for their software. Maybe we could make money by bundling software packages and charging a small production fee. OpenSuSE would have some revenue that would trickle down to the programmers. If you don&#039;t want to charge for software, then you have to sell product to market your brand. We really need  to get together and make a buck here. Woo Hoo!! BZFlag is up....laters.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So where&#8217;s the beef? Are we all making money with OpenSuSE? I&#8217;m beginning to think that maybe we need new blood. Maybe we need to start running SuSE like a business. People contribute, contribute, and contribute. Bragging rights are really cool, but they do not feed anyone. We should maybe put some pay structure for our beloved programmers. Android and Web OS has their developers make a couple of bucks for their software. Maybe we could make money by bundling software packages and charging a small production fee. OpenSuSE would have some revenue that would trickle down to the programmers. If you don&#8217;t want to charge for software, then you have to sell product to market your brand. We really need  to get together and make a buck here. Woo Hoo!! BZFlag is up&#8230;.laters.</p>
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		<title>By: AlbertoP</title>
		<link>http://news.opensuse.org/2010/09/03/strategy-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-17149</link>
		<dc:creator>AlbertoP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Sep 2010 08:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.opensuse.org/?p=4148#comment-17149</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My comment was in reply to Luis Freitas... sorry.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My comment was in reply to Luis Freitas&#8230; sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: AlbertoP</title>
		<link>http://news.opensuse.org/2010/09/03/strategy-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-17148</link>
		<dc:creator>AlbertoP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Sep 2010 08:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.opensuse.org/?p=4148#comment-17148</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is simply not what users expect from a distribution. The role of a distribution is not simply to put pieces together. It is exactly to ensure that those pieces work well together and to limit the problems the user will meet. If a distribution does not do this, it fails, because it does not reach its fundamental goal of integrating the tools by whom it is composed.

On another note, talking with a user on IRC some point came into the talk. In these years openSUSE tried to be a lot of things. It tried to be everything to everyone, to be a desktop distribution, a friendly distribution, a versatile distribution, a server distribution... The problem is that in doing all this, openSUSE did not try to be simply...openSUSE. It did not try to build its own identity, it actually did a lot to change what SuSE used to be to many, in an attempt to become something else, which was not clearly defined. 
I think the strategy should be oriented to give openSUSE an identity, which does not have to be the identity SuSE had, since times have changed, needs have changed. However, that identity has to be clear, and possibly different from the identity of other projects. Defining an identity cannot make everybody happy, but it is not important. Someone will leave, other people will come, if they will find a positive environment and a goal they share. This, in the end, will be positive, and hopefully it will bring some fresh air to the community too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is simply not what users expect from a distribution. The role of a distribution is not simply to put pieces together. It is exactly to ensure that those pieces work well together and to limit the problems the user will meet. If a distribution does not do this, it fails, because it does not reach its fundamental goal of integrating the tools by whom it is composed.</p>
<p>On another note, talking with a user on IRC some point came into the talk. In these years openSUSE tried to be a lot of things. It tried to be everything to everyone, to be a desktop distribution, a friendly distribution, a versatile distribution, a server distribution&#8230; The problem is that in doing all this, openSUSE did not try to be simply&#8230;openSUSE. It did not try to build its own identity, it actually did a lot to change what SuSE used to be to many, in an attempt to become something else, which was not clearly defined.<br />
I think the strategy should be oriented to give openSUSE an identity, which does not have to be the identity SuSE had, since times have changed, needs have changed. However, that identity has to be clear, and possibly different from the identity of other projects. Defining an identity cannot make everybody happy, but it is not important. Someone will leave, other people will come, if they will find a positive environment and a goal they share. This, in the end, will be positive, and hopefully it will bring some fresh air to the community too.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://news.opensuse.org/2010/09/03/strategy-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-16996</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 18:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.opensuse.org/?p=4148#comment-16996</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi every body,
I am a simple user interested by Süse since a long time (Süse 6.4 ?).I paid the original german distributions, especting to help... and paid two of the Novell tinted versions, too. I just want to say that for me, KDE is sucking with this version 4, even more looking like MSW (that is un-understandable), even needing more resources to run; Open Suse is KDE first... and this is the reason why I look for an other distribution.
Hoping to help...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi every body,<br />
I am a simple user interested by Süse since a long time (Süse 6.4 ?).I paid the original german distributions, especting to help&#8230; and paid two of the Novell tinted versions, too. I just want to say that for me, KDE is sucking with this version 4, even more looking like MSW (that is un-understandable), even needing more resources to run; Open Suse is KDE first&#8230; and this is the reason why I look for an other distribution.<br />
Hoping to help&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Luis Freitas</title>
		<link>http://news.opensuse.org/2010/09/03/strategy-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-16894</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis Freitas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.opensuse.org/?p=4148#comment-16894</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Steve,

OpenSUSE is a compilation of thousands of software packages, developed by thousands of developers. Only a few in Novell and such. There are great guys at Novell, but there are much better one all over the world commited to their own projects and jobs.
When you say: &quot;Now let me speak to RAS (Reliability, Availablilty, Serviceability)&quot;, SMB or SOHO (Small to Medium Business / Small Office – Home Office), have you learn something usefull on those crash courses. OpenSource is also about attitude.
You seriouly need to read documentation about the software you use (using linux you will read a lot).
I use, installed OpenSuse in better mainframes that probably you will never see in person, and it&#039;s not about stability of opensuse, it&#039;s about stability of every software package you use. opensuse is just a tool to ease management of software packages. Now it&#039;s up to you to search for RAS (Reliability, Availablilty, Serviceability). LOL...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Steve,</p>
<p>OpenSUSE is a compilation of thousands of software packages, developed by thousands of developers. Only a few in Novell and such. There are great guys at Novell, but there are much better one all over the world commited to their own projects and jobs.<br />
When you say: &#8220;Now let me speak to RAS (Reliability, Availablilty, Serviceability)&#8221;, SMB or SOHO (Small to Medium Business / Small Office – Home Office), have you learn something usefull on those crash courses. OpenSource is also about attitude.<br />
You seriouly need to read documentation about the software you use (using linux you will read a lot).<br />
I use, installed OpenSuse in better mainframes that probably you will never see in person, and it&#8217;s not about stability of opensuse, it&#8217;s about stability of every software package you use. opensuse is just a tool to ease management of software packages. Now it&#8217;s up to you to search for RAS (Reliability, Availablilty, Serviceability). LOL&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: beurtbalkje</title>
		<link>http://news.opensuse.org/2010/09/03/strategy-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-16872</link>
		<dc:creator>beurtbalkje</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 10:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.opensuse.org/?p=4148#comment-16872</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I absolutely agree with you. Although I can only speak as a KDE desktop-user with a five year old PC. There is to me no better distro around. I&#039;m even happy with the changes made (I even call them progress, but that&#039;s because they work for me). 

And concerning Novell: being linked to a company is not just a bad thing. Perhaps we can learn from Ubuntu in that prospect. What did good old Mark say, if I remember correctly: Ubuntu is not a democracy but a meritocracy (Is that even pronounced right?). We should be not over democratic, we need a good team within the community and for the community, to set goals and a direction.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I absolutely agree with you. Although I can only speak as a KDE desktop-user with a five year old PC. There is to me no better distro around. I&#8217;m even happy with the changes made (I even call them progress, but that&#8217;s because they work for me). </p>
<p>And concerning Novell: being linked to a company is not just a bad thing. Perhaps we can learn from Ubuntu in that prospect. What did good old Mark say, if I remember correctly: Ubuntu is not a democracy but a meritocracy (Is that even pronounced right?). We should be not over democratic, we need a good team within the community and for the community, to set goals and a direction.</p>
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		<title>By: Corey</title>
		<link>http://news.opensuse.org/2010/09/03/strategy-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-16837</link>
		<dc:creator>Corey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 03:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.opensuse.org/?p=4148#comment-16837</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First, thank you for all the great software over the last decade (a SuSE user since 98)... and now, my two cents.

I won&#039;t repeat much of what has been said but if you&#039;re seeking solid product identity, dropping GNOME would be a good start.  Splitting your development to support multiple interfaces is a big mistake (neither M$oft nor A**le do do it) and a drain on your resources.  The time, effort and $$$ is much better spent making KDE your signature product (besides, GNOME pretty much belongs to UbUn2) instead of being another me-too Linux.

I&#039;ve been and IT consultant for nearly 3 decades and I&#039;ve spent half that time waiting for a Linux distribution I could put into a production environment (not so much to put in Linux but to lower costs) and still nothing.  And the reason??  Too much talk, not enough action.

Keep it simple.  Pick an interface and make it super slick, stable and ready for prime time, generate a (limited) hardware compatibility list and put it out there (for SLED) even if it means making a deal with the devil... or De77.  After that&#039;s done, build a bunch of drivers for the community (beggars can&#039;t be choosy... I&#039;m a beggar too so don&#039;t flame me) and generate some revenue.  The more you generate, the better off the community will be (it&#039;s simple economics).  There will be those in the community who get steamed but really... we all try every decent distro that comes out anyhow so let&#039;s not kid ourselves.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, thank you for all the great software over the last decade (a SuSE user since 98)&#8230; and now, my two cents.</p>
<p>I won&#8217;t repeat much of what has been said but if you&#8217;re seeking solid product identity, dropping GNOME would be a good start.  Splitting your development to support multiple interfaces is a big mistake (neither M$oft nor A**le do do it) and a drain on your resources.  The time, effort and $$$ is much better spent making KDE your signature product (besides, GNOME pretty much belongs to UbUn2) instead of being another me-too Linux.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been and IT consultant for nearly 3 decades and I&#8217;ve spent half that time waiting for a Linux distribution I could put into a production environment (not so much to put in Linux but to lower costs) and still nothing.  And the reason??  Too much talk, not enough action.</p>
<p>Keep it simple.  Pick an interface and make it super slick, stable and ready for prime time, generate a (limited) hardware compatibility list and put it out there (for SLED) even if it means making a deal with the devil&#8230; or De77.  After that&#8217;s done, build a bunch of drivers for the community (beggars can&#8217;t be choosy&#8230; I&#8217;m a beggar too so don&#8217;t flame me) and generate some revenue.  The more you generate, the better off the community will be (it&#8217;s simple economics).  There will be those in the community who get steamed but really&#8230; we all try every decent distro that comes out anyhow so let&#8217;s not kid ourselves.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://news.opensuse.org/2010/09/03/strategy-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-16807</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 19:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.opensuse.org/?p=4148#comment-16807</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I endorse that sentiment ... SLED and SLES for Business ... and let Oracle rape and pillage to their hearts content. I have used SuSE since v 4.8 as the families computing environment. We have a swag of old and decrepit computers in our house ... it could be hailed as a rich IT environment, however it was made possible by the community, and openness of the development path that openSuSE took to get where it is now. I say hold true to the OSI ideals ... Oracle, Apple, M$, have a different mindset ... they care less for the client than they do for the wad of notes in their pocket, they are the dinasaur here... OSI is the meteor that they know is coming, and cant do anything about.

I also like Jacks comment above about Corporate being clever ... might I add that they are only as good as the sum of the talent they have working for them, and they really really do need to note that down as lesson number one. If the pee enough of the talent off they might find they have a paper empire indeed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I endorse that sentiment &#8230; SLED and SLES for Business &#8230; and let Oracle rape and pillage to their hearts content. I have used SuSE since v 4.8 as the families computing environment. We have a swag of old and decrepit computers in our house &#8230; it could be hailed as a rich IT environment, however it was made possible by the community, and openness of the development path that openSuSE took to get where it is now. I say hold true to the OSI ideals &#8230; Oracle, Apple, M$, have a different mindset &#8230; they care less for the client than they do for the wad of notes in their pocket, they are the dinasaur here&#8230; OSI is the meteor that they know is coming, and cant do anything about.</p>
<p>I also like Jacks comment above about Corporate being clever &#8230; might I add that they are only as good as the sum of the talent they have working for them, and they really really do need to note that down as lesson number one. If the pee enough of the talent off they might find they have a paper empire indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: the evil</title>
		<link>http://news.opensuse.org/2010/09/03/strategy-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-16797</link>
		<dc:creator>the evil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 14:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.opensuse.org/?p=4148#comment-16797</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[After reading all those comments I wonder if the &quot;community&quot; knows about the term &quot;community&quot; itself and its meaning and if the community has an understanding of it. Deeply.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading all those comments I wonder if the &#8220;community&#8221; knows about the term &#8220;community&#8221; itself and its meaning and if the community has an understanding of it. Deeply.</p>
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		<title>By: Phill</title>
		<link>http://news.opensuse.org/2010/09/03/strategy-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-16794</link>
		<dc:creator>Phill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 13:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://news.opensuse.org/?p=4148#comment-16794</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve had a good read of all the above comments and see what I think are perfectly reasonable and valid complaints about certain areas of opensuse, such as documentation for one, however, remember that this is a community project with the vast majority of users paying nothing for their operating system.  Whilst I appreciate that not everybody is a developer and thus can&#039;t write programs or do their own bug fixes, the fact you can install linux and write your complaints on this page means you could well be helping to write new documentation that is up to date.  As for issues with the removal of certain packages, again, it&#039;s worth remembering that there is only so much development time available to build software, test it, bug fix it, rebuild it, test it etc until a fairly stable distribution results and is ready for publishing, yes, I liked KDE 3.5 a lot, but I&#039;ve adjusted to KDE4 perfectly well and if it upset me enough, I could always build KDE3.5 myself from source and package it, then stick it in a repo (if this hasn&#039;t been done already).  I&#039;m currently writing this on 11.3 which I&#039;ve installed since my main desktop won&#039;t boot from my Windows 7 DVD which works fine in my other 3 machines, I&#039;ve swapped bits of hardware and Win7 still wont boot (I&#039;m genuinely perplexed as I ran it before) but once again, opensuse came to the rescue on my very modern hardware.  I am an IT consultant who works on linux servers all day, every day, and to be honest all I want from a desktop distro is hassle free computing, so far 11.3 hasn&#039;t disappointed me, I only needed yast once to install a couple of -dev packages to build amsn.  As for the bugs in opensuse and us doing the testing for SLED/SLES, that&#039;s exactly right and how it should be, if you don&#039;t want to be part of that, pay for SLED/SLES, and I recommend taking a look at Fedora if you want an example of a distro bundling broken crap to test on it&#039;s users, despite my in depth knowledge of linux, I simply can&#039;t be arsed to do the amount of fix work required by FC, but I think Opensuse does a pretty solid job for a testing platform.  The community could certainly do with getting more involved in beta testing the milestone, alpha, beta and RC releases, file your bug reports early and enjoy a more solid product at the end, again, this kind of process doesn&#039;t require you to be a developer, just a tester who contributes a little.  There are plenty of very stable operating systems in the world with a price tag, if you want guaranteed results, pay for it, if you are happy to be part of the open source/not paying for your software club, then get more involved.  As for who I think opensuse should be targeting, I think moderate users to power users primarily.  Ubuntu already covers the newbies, Redhat covers the pro&#039;s (super stable, but fairly rudimentary configuration tools), Debian and Slackware cover those who like to tart around for days before getting any work done.  Opensuse, I have found anyway, is a good distro for me to install and 30 minutes later, get on with my work with some youtube in the background, bloody brilliant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve had a good read of all the above comments and see what I think are perfectly reasonable and valid complaints about certain areas of opensuse, such as documentation for one, however, remember that this is a community project with the vast majority of users paying nothing for their operating system.  Whilst I appreciate that not everybody is a developer and thus can&#8217;t write programs or do their own bug fixes, the fact you can install linux and write your complaints on this page means you could well be helping to write new documentation that is up to date.  As for issues with the removal of certain packages, again, it&#8217;s worth remembering that there is only so much development time available to build software, test it, bug fix it, rebuild it, test it etc until a fairly stable distribution results and is ready for publishing, yes, I liked KDE 3.5 a lot, but I&#8217;ve adjusted to KDE4 perfectly well and if it upset me enough, I could always build KDE3.5 myself from source and package it, then stick it in a repo (if this hasn&#8217;t been done already).  I&#8217;m currently writing this on 11.3 which I&#8217;ve installed since my main desktop won&#8217;t boot from my Windows 7 DVD which works fine in my other 3 machines, I&#8217;ve swapped bits of hardware and Win7 still wont boot (I&#8217;m genuinely perplexed as I ran it before) but once again, opensuse came to the rescue on my very modern hardware.  I am an IT consultant who works on linux servers all day, every day, and to be honest all I want from a desktop distro is hassle free computing, so far 11.3 hasn&#8217;t disappointed me, I only needed yast once to install a couple of -dev packages to build amsn.  As for the bugs in opensuse and us doing the testing for SLED/SLES, that&#8217;s exactly right and how it should be, if you don&#8217;t want to be part of that, pay for SLED/SLES, and I recommend taking a look at Fedora if you want an example of a distro bundling broken crap to test on it&#8217;s users, despite my in depth knowledge of linux, I simply can&#8217;t be arsed to do the amount of fix work required by FC, but I think Opensuse does a pretty solid job for a testing platform.  The community could certainly do with getting more involved in beta testing the milestone, alpha, beta and RC releases, file your bug reports early and enjoy a more solid product at the end, again, this kind of process doesn&#8217;t require you to be a developer, just a tester who contributes a little.  There are plenty of very stable operating systems in the world with a price tag, if you want guaranteed results, pay for it, if you are happy to be part of the open source/not paying for your software club, then get more involved.  As for who I think opensuse should be targeting, I think moderate users to power users primarily.  Ubuntu already covers the newbies, Redhat covers the pro&#8217;s (super stable, but fairly rudimentary configuration tools), Debian and Slackware cover those who like to tart around for days before getting any work done.  Opensuse, I have found anyway, is a good distro for me to install and 30 minutes later, get on with my work with some youtube in the background, bloody brilliant.</p>
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